Transcript: Rep. Mike Lawler on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Aug. 24, 2025 Clutch Fire

The following is the transcript of an interview with Rep. Mike Lawler, Republican of New York, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Aug. 24, 2025.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face The Nation. We go now to Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York. Good to have you here, Congressman, there’s a lot to get to with you, but I want to pick up on something we were discussing with the governor of Maryland, and that was this redistricting, gerrymandering that is happening. The President encouraged Texas Republicans to do it. Now, California Democrats are trying to get districts redrawn as well. Why do you so strongly oppose this?

REP. MIKE LAWLER: I think gerrymandering is fundamentally wrong, and it is at the heart of why Congress has been broken for so many years. If you look three decades ago, there were over 100 competitive districts. Last November, only 35 seats were decided by five points or less, and mine wasn’t even one of them, despite the fact that Kamala Harris won my seat, I won by six and a half points. So when you look at the map across the country, the fact is roughly 400 members are not in competitive districts. They’re focused primarily on primaries and not general elections, and therefore they’re not focused on appealing to a much broader swath of the electorate. And I think that obviously reflects itself when you’re actually trying to negotiate legislation and beyond. But when you look at the redistricting situation, obviously both parties do not have clean hands here. Democrats in New York did mid-decade redistricting last year in 2024 at the behest of Hakeem Jeffries, who wanted to pick up seats in New York to become Speaker. They gerrymandered the maps after stacking the court and getting a favorable ruling ordering a mid-decade redistricting, despite the fact that they gerrymandered maps in 2022 and those were thrown out because it violated the state constitution. So now New York is going for a third bite at the apple, according to Governor Hochul, who has made it clear since the moment she took office in 2021 that she would use redistricting to help Democrats win the house. So this is what you’re dealing with, red states and blue states trying to get electoral advantage right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I guess what’s different now is the President’s direct involvement in this, which is why it’s interesting you have legislation to try to oppose some of this. Do you really think you can get that done if the President of United States doesn’t want it done?

REP. LAWLER: Look, obviously, it’s going to be a fight, but this is something that I fundamentally believe we need to reform. We need to ban gerrymandering nationwide. We need to ban mid decade redistricting. I want to include term limits as part of those reforms, because I fundamentally believe when you have members of Congress like Chuck Schumer, who’s been in elected office since 1974 never held a job outside of elected office. It’s time to go. You need term limits. You need overall reform. So I’m going to fight tooth and nail to get this done. Obviously, you know there’s going to be strong headwinds from both parties, because frankly, I don’t think both parties are interested in reforming the way Congress functions. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, they want the majority. Period. On the question, though, that we have been- also been discussing with the governor, that is crime. The President of the United States has mentioned New York is another city he wants to look at to deploy National Guard troops. Do you think that’s the best use of federal taxpayer dollars, and are you comfortable with that happening in your state?

REP. LAWLER: Crime has been a major problem in New York for years, and Kathy Hochul and Albany and New York City Democrats have failed miserably to tackle this crime. 

MARGARET BRENNAN:– Do you want National Guard troops?– , 

REP. LAWLER: — By the way, Kathy Hochul has mobilized- Kathy Hochul has mobilized National Guard’s troops to go into the subway system because of the crime in the subway system. So that has been done, obviously, for the purpose of surging resources and trying to prevent crime. When you look at the fact that in New York City, for instance, 80% of gun crimes do not result in a conviction or prosecution, that 80% of these individuals are released back out onto the street despite using guns in the commission of a crime. You look at Washington DC, 1.7% of gun crime convictions result in jail time. So when Democrats talk about gun violence, how come they don’t want to actually prosecute and enforce the law against criminals who are using guns in the commission of a crime? 

[START CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: — No, but that’s a local– 

REP. LAWLER: — This is a fundamental problem and it’s why the homicide rate– 

MARGARET BRENNAN:– that’s a local issue that would need to get changed. But in terms of the question on the troops– 

REP. LAWLER: — No but- it’s- no- but Margaret, this why the homicide rate is so high– 

MARGARET BRENNAN: — You’d rather troops than FBI agents or ATF agents or DEA agents. You don’t want federal agents who are trained law enforcement officers in New York City. You would rather National Guardsmen — 

REP. LAWLER: — I want- I want all of the above.–  

MARGARET BRENNAN: — who have trained to be trained to police?

[END CROSSTALK]

REP. LAWLER: No. No, no, don’t put words in my mouth. I’d rather all of the above, the FBI, the DEA, ATF. I’ve met with ATF just a few weeks ago in my office on this very issue of really cracking down on gun crimes and prosecuting criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime. I was proud last year to lead the passage of the Undetectable Firearms Act, a common sense, bipartisan piece of gun safety legislation enacted into law in the 1980s. We extended it seven years to make sure that no gun is manufactured or sold with less than 3.7 ounces of metal. I led that effort, and the reason I did is because we do not want guns on the street being used in the commission of a crime, and yet, as I pointed out, you look at Washington D.C., only 1.7% of gun crime convictions result in jail time. This is why you’ve seen the homicide rate double in less than a decade. It’s outrageous, and it’s exactly why the President is cracking down on crime in major cities, and as we saw in California, he is legally authorized to do so. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about something in New York State that matters. A good amount of money from that CHIPs bill went to New York. On Friday, the White House announced there’s going to be a change to how the government deals with that money that’s meant to make America independent of Asian computer chip manufacturing and bring it all back on shore, the President wants to buy a 10% stake in Intel. That company says it’s going to now basically have US taxpayers as a shareholder, own 10%. As a conservative, do you think that the government should have ownership stakes in private companies?

REP. LAWLER: Generally speaking, no, I think when you look at prior history, when we’ve had, for instance, the bank bailouts, when we’ve had the auto bailouts, you know, in the- in the aftermath of the collapse of the market and ’08 the American taxpayer really didn’t get a return on that. I think what the President is seemingly trying to do is get a return on these tens of billions of dollars that are being invested by U.S. taxpayers, by U.S. taxpayers into companies like Intel to manufacture chips. And so rather than just give the money away, get a return on that investment. Obviously, this is a national security issue. We want to be in control of the manufacturing of semiconductors and that’s critical for our foreign policy. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, I’m sorry to cut you off. I’m being told I have to go to a commercial break, so I’m going to leave it there. We’ll be right back.